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wilderthanPuns about orgies over with... I've played KHI, CoM and KHII, but something I've never really been able to put my finger on is how to write any of the Organisation. I can see why people would 'ship Axel/Roxas, and I think I could probably write a decent Larxene, but most of them are really a mystery to me (including Axel and Roxas). If they don't have hearts, in the sense that they don't feel, why is anything -- other than perhaps filling that emptiness -- important to them? I read somewhere that each of them goes to extremes with something to feel as if they're real -- Larxene is sadistic, the gambling one gambles... I'm not sure where I read that, though. Roxas seems to feel things in the Twilight Town part -- what's that about, if he doesn't have a heart? Or is he just different because of Sora?
The point is, it's fairly obvious most of them fail to make an impression on me -- and I seemed to have failed to learn much about them in playing the games. How do you go about writing them? Or if you don't, can you give me any insight into their headspace?
The point is, it's fairly obvious most of them fail to make an impression on me -- and I seemed to have failed to learn much about them in playing the games. How do you go about writing them? Or if you don't, can you give me any insight into their headspace?
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(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 02:42 pm (UTC)We weren't given much information and a lot was left open to interpretation when it comes to Organization XIII, so different people have different opinions on them. Personally, I'm of the belief they can imitate feeling because of their memories as their original selves before they lost their hearts. But they're also incredibly selfish, thinking only of themselves and unable to empathise with others. Organization XIII is only really an alliance of convenience under a common goal, as demonstrated in CoM when members were all too eager to stab one another in the back when that goal changed – Marluxia and Larxene wanted to take over the Organization in a bid for power. That was sort of a repeat at the end of Kingdom Hearts II, because in the end, Xemnas just wanted power as well.
Roxas is an exception to the Nobody rule because he's special. Not surprising, given he’s the Nobody of the Keyblade master and all that. It's been stated a few times that, unlike other Nobodies, Roxas does have emotions, and Axel goes as far as to say in a FM+ scene that he thinks Roxas does have a heart. It could be because Sora was special when he lost his heart, still able to keep his own mind even as a Heartless, and that in turn affected his Nobody and made him capable of emotion, but that's another thing left open for players to decide for themselves. In Twilight Town, he was also given a ‘fake’ personality by DiZ, to make him seem more like an average person and fit in easily like he did. His Organization XIII personality was shown to be much different.
Axel, of course, seemed like he had emotions because of Roxas, as he said himself. But he's still a Nobody and able to turn on his best friend the moment he discovers Roxas has forgotten about him, and he can kill Vexen and set Replica Riku on Zexion without as much as batting an eye about it. In the end, his death could be seen two ways: selfless heroism to help his best friend, or a selfish act, because he just couldn’t stand living without a heart and Roxas not being around any more.
Yeah, essay there. (Found you via
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 02:45 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 02:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 02:49 pm (UTC)Yeah, I have a feeling just replaying is going to help.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 02:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 02:54 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-23 10:41 pm (UTC)Or a combination of both. Very few things are driven purely by one emotion.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 05:36 pm (UTC)One thing that is clear to me is that the neophytes (Saïx-Naminé) do not seem to know that they don't have hearts. They are more prone to "showing emotion" than the original six, and we get Roxas' back story and he seems to have no been aware until it was pointed out to him. I think that's meaningful. That Axel obviously has a conflict of "I don't have a heart, but this guy makes me feel like I have a heart."
Still, I think there is something missing. Just not something you could place. I mean, hearts in KH world physically exist outside the bloodpumping hunk of muscle. They're the metaphysical seat of emotion, but they are a physical thing that even worlds have.
I think memory is important. I write Axel the most frequently as doing things because he thinks that's what he should feel or do or say. You can remember what anger is and what ought to anger you... I mean, what I gather from people who are doped up, it's shockingly easy to fascimilate emotions. I use what I know about antisocial personality disorder and other mental illnesses to think about the concept of having no seat of emotions. I also think, hey, maybe since Kairi is the Princess of Heart and all good, that Hearts only represent nice fluffy emotions. Maybe Darkness can hold emotion too. In which case, lust, jealousy, anger, hatred, desperation, selfishness... Are all within the range for a Nobody and what they want to feel is joy and love and whatnot. Things, I think, Xehanort/Xemnas/Ansem the Heartless may well have lacked long before he lost his heart.
And Axel's not the only one with doubts about hearts! I think people too easily dismiss Demyx's "We do too have hearts!" line. Demyx is NOT a good actor. He's arguably not "not a good fighter" since he kicked my ass like five times, but he is DEFINITELY not a good actor. So that he'd be lying, no, no, I think he's genuinely in denial. I think he's been told, but he simply doesn't believe it. God knows about Demyx. I feel so bad for him.
Not that Axel isn't curious, but for different reasons I hope will be explored. I'm interested in the new shiny CoM scenes in KH2:FM+, because there he honestly looks far more cold and evil than I ever suspected they were trying to present. The Axel around Roxas is an Axel that doesn't exist to ANYONE ELSE. Axel, then, is also kind of a bad fit. I actually suspect, what with Marluxia and Larxene, and then the basement crew, that the Organization is not half as organized as you'd think. I don't think they can play nicely, or that they have any organized concept of what they are. Even the scientists, I don't think they totally understood hearts then or understand them now. Maybe a heart isn't all you need to feel, maybe you wouldn't know you didn't have a heart unless someone pointed it out.
I don't think Axel's comments after his death to Roxas in the Final Mix are to say that Roxas does have a heart. If that was the case I think he'd be more interesting for that then having a keyblade and Vexen would have cut him up to find it and discover it's secrets. And if Roxas had a heart, Naminé would too (she's just as special damnit!) and she seems very aware that she doesn't and that her heart is in Kairi. So, no, I think he's actually trying to point out that no one has a CLUE about hearts. Maybe Axel could feel and he's just one of those codependent assholes who, like a bitchy siamese cat, only loves one person in the world and HATES EVERYBODY ELSE.
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 05:39 pm (UTC)Basically, I write them:
- As faking emotion based on their memories of having had hearts.
- Having a certain turnicated range of emotion due to their inner darkness and the selfishness of will.
- Sometimes I write them as feeling vicariously through the hearts of other people. For instance, at Axel's death, he is very close to Sora's heart and knows that he does love Roxas, whereas before it was... maybe just an inkling, or something he didn't understand as feeling.
I have scenes from fics I've written that could illustrate all of those things... And I will resist the narcisssitic urge to share them. But I can show through example if that'd help!
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 05:58 pm (UTC)I think it would! I haven't read much Organisation XIII fic because... well, I haven't read much KH fic. I don't read much long fic for whatever reason, but I keep meaning to ask people -- if you know of any good one shots that're, for example, Axel/Roxas, link me?
Maybe this is just inspired by a kid's book I had, but I was thinking... in the book, there's an angel made out of metal, made so she can talk and fly and so on. But she doesn't have a heart, and she needs one (I think so that she can smile and look happy while she's flying, though I can't remember). So a little boy tells her that he'll be her heart. So I was thinking that, for Axel, Roxas is his heart in the sense that he seems to remind him how to feel. Like, they do have "hearts", and they're able to feel, they just don't really know how or understand what it is?
I'm also reminded of a set of books I read where people were emotionally stripped of their ties to the rest of the world, and they became emotionless, although they were still intelligent and still had their memories of everything, they just couldn't feel kinship with people any more. But there was a kind of magic that they could feel that seemed to remind them of how they had been, and they were drawn towards people who used it. Which reminds me of how the Nobodies wanted hearts, you know?
Uhh, I can't remember where I was going with that. xD
(no subject)
Date: 2007-10-22 06:01 pm (UTC)MAAMDRzpJodd
Date: 2011-10-28 02:07 am (UTC)